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yoda, see my earlier posts. Like all taxes and fees since they began, the principle is that a little bit adds up to enough to pay for service(s). In this case, 1% from you or I adds up to $500,000 a year for the county. You can argue that the county wastes that money. I think they run things pretty well, but it's certainly possible that some roads money is wasted. That's another side of the issue. If we get an inheritance that we don't want to sell, say a house or a piece of land, we go to the bank and borrow the 1 percent, pay the tax and easily repay it through the rent we charge to whoever uses our newly inherited property. We don't have to sell a piece of the property. We can keep it, rent it to others, borrow against it for capital to launch other projects/investments... for the rest of our lives if we want to, and then pass it on to our heirs, etc. |
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Posted by George Lauby  - 2/4/2012 11:14:13 PM
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George...still waiting for you to define "fair" as you have used it...and George if 1% isn't that much, there really shouldn't be much of a discussion about it...it really isn't that much for the government either...and when the 1% is not liquid, it can be a whole lot because assets have to be converted in order to pay the 1% and that often means that those assets have to be sold outside the family...but I guess that is "fair" under your definition? |
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Posted by Yoda - 2/4/2012 9:52:24 PM
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Cutting revenues while spending more at the same time is double dumb, sako. Good representatives would strike a fair compromise... say... $2 million estate tax exemption. |
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Posted by George Lauby - 2/4/2012 8:39:19 PM
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Luckily TRA2010 was extended at the last minute or we would have gone back to only $1,000,000 exemption and 55% estate tax rate. There are still many who prefer we let those tax cuts expire and still others who think they should increase even further. It is not a revenue problem, it is a spending problem at all levels from locals to feds. |
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Posted by sako - 2/4/2012 3:10:41 PM
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Good point hoghunter in theory. A flat tax is appealing. Tax laws are complex, but some simple principles apply.
Right now, you can give your son a gift worth up to $10,000 (apprx) every year and he won't have to pay a dime in taxes. And, you can will him an estate of $5 million and he won't pay any federal taxes. (yesterday I said $2 million, but on checking it's $5 million – the Bush tax cuts were extended in December, not sure they did us any good).
If I'm not mistaken you could will EACH of your kids $5 million and none of them would pay taxes on it… respecting what you've accomplished and are passing on to them. That deduction more than covers most estates, even mid-size farms valued today at $3,000 per acre.
The well-to-do have worked hard, earned their money and have to take care of it, big jobs, I respect them for it. But it looks to me that the $5 million deduction and eliminations of estate taxes are the result of lobbying of Congress by people making multi-millions. That income does pay for worthwhile things -- military, roads, law enforcement, schools that keeps us free, strong and aware.
Bit of a simplification, we could talk about govt waste and bureaucracy which is a terrible deal for our dough. Another time. |
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Posted by George Lauby - 2/4/2012 1:40:04 PM
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I agree with George about consolidating counties. It just wouldn't save money. But, I disagree with him about the inheritance tax. I have less of a problem with inheritance taxes on cash and liquid assets (but I still don't like them). What I have a real problem with is inheritance taxes on assets such as land. If the land produces an income, you will already have to pay income taxes. If you sell it, more than likely, you will have capital gains taxes. But, taxing the value of it seems going to far. And I disagree with George's statement that inheriting it is an income. It's not an income until you sell it. |
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Posted by futuredr - 2/4/2012 1:22:46 PM
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Just another issue that would be easily fixed if we had a flat tax on what's spent. Let's say I give my son $20 today, should we then make sure he pays his taxes? I mean, he just increased his wealth and I'm sure SOMEONE got screwed by him getting handed something his dad worked for, payed taxes on already and gave to him, right? |
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Posted by Hoghunter - 2/4/2012 10:16:16 AM
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Put it to a vote of the people and I bet it would get voted down a isn't it time for Mr.Hewgley to go |
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Posted by nebred - 2/4/2012 10:09:24 AM
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Simple solution like Buffet and Gates. They want higher taxes for the rich. They should just write a check to set an example. They won't and on top of it they will give their money to charity rather then pay the taxman. Sheeple. |
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Posted by dragracer - 2/3/2012 5:59:17 PM
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yoda life will never be fair but people should strive to be. Consider the alternative. The percentage of county inheritance tax is not much - 1% -- hardly confiscatory.
Inheritance is an income to the recipient… house, land, savings, (life insurance benefits are in the theoretical category), family heirlooms, jewelry, etc. If the inheritance isn’t cash it can be sold for cash. No income tax is due on the sale.
Sako, estate taxes are not anywhere near 50%. As I recall the max federal estate tax is 35% -- & that rarely if ever applicable -- and currently much less under the Bush tax cuts. The first couple million $$ is federal tax free. The first $40,000 is tax free on the county level, and there are a variety of ways to avoid paying more. Most people consult tax law attorneys and estate planners and pay a relatively small percentage if any. |
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Posted by George Lauby - 2/3/2012 4:54:49 PM
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So, by your philosophy George, life insurance death benefits should also be taxed as well? If we are to be fair, shouldn't the exemption be taken away and taxes collected on each dollar of value being passed down? If I leave my Winchester Model 12 (my only remaining asset after paying my final expenses) to my daughter, should she have to come up with half it's value to send in to the feds in order to keep it? Fair is fair. |
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Posted by sako - 2/3/2012 4:36:08 PM
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Not an answer. The government tells you the value changes with no wealth generated (price discovery). The property tax and inheritance tax is a wealth tax. Where is this wealth? New tractors rise in price on market demand by what sells, not the ones sold in the past. Math generated properly brings all kinds of questions as to who owns what and who pays the tax. Don't feel bad I bet the local econ prof would probably be unable to answer where the real wealth is based on real value with out price discovery. Confused? it's made that way on purpose. |
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Posted by dragracer - 2/3/2012 2:47:39 PM
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No George...I just want your definition of the word "fair"...to answer a question you earlier posed...it seems to me that under the actual definition of "fair"...it would be unfair to not allow a person to do with their property what they want free from govenmental grasp in the form of taxes once that property had already been paid for in tax...just as it seems unfair to take that property for the benefit of those who were not responsible for themselves and their family...what is the "fairness" of taking from some to give and provide for others? And since time innortal...the world has never been fair, never will be fair, and never should be "fair"...and it is probably time that people quit thinking that it should be, can be and will be... |
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Posted by Yoda - 2/3/2012 2:22:38 PM
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dragracer, sure the farm has debts; it hasn't been gutted by taxes anymore than the soaring costs of tractors, and it has increased tremendously in value in the past 3-4 years, the opposite of home values.
Yoda, sounds like you want a history of the evolution of taxation. Good luck getting that, lol.
You are right Walt, estate and/or inheritance tax is basically the same thing and inheritance taxes go to counties. Nebraska's estate tax was repealed a year or so ago.
I hate taxes as much as anyone, especially property taxes that go up because someone else got a bunch of money from their sale.
However, I'll put it another way. If someone gets money or the equivalent of money from somewhere, it's taxed -- a simple, uniform principle in the United States. If some don't pay taxes on income or the equivalent, it puts more burdens on those who do.
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Posted by George Lauby - 2/3/2012 2:11:57 PM
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Well said, Yoda. |
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Posted by Walt - 2/3/2012 1:02:16 PM
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"Fair"...a word that has been used lately, especially when talking about taxes...the meaning of the word has been abbrogated from anything resembling its actual definition...so Gearge...please defing your use of the word "fair"...and why it is "fair" for some to pay whatever, at higher percentages or otherwise than others...why is it fair for people to have to pay more, or at all, because they were resourceful, resoponsible and smart...whil;e others who weren't don't have the same responsibilities? Why is it "fair" to penalize responsibility and success? |
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Posted by Yoda - 2/3/2012 12:47:33 PM
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George is the farm paid for or gutted with debt extraction from Faux Tax appraisals? You really have to understand price discovery to see there has never been a change in real value. |
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Posted by dragracer - 2/3/2012 11:36:27 AM
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If I am not mistaken there is no "estate tax" in Nebraska, but there is an "inheritance tax," which is basically an estate tax. |
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Posted by Walt - 2/3/2012 11:23:45 AM
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hey, I also grew up on a farm and operated a farm of my own for several years, later sold, and my parents are now gone so my siblings are working through an inheritance. Land values have doubled in the last 10 years. Crop prices have tripled. Cattle prices are at record highs. There is already a $2 million (or so) exemption for federal estate taxes, and no estate tax at all in Nebraska. How is it fair or equitable that we should get that of windfall just because we are fortunate to be in these circumstances? The county keeps roads in good shape for farmers, provides law enforcement, etc. and we've directly benefited from that over the years. |
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Posted by George Lauby - 2/3/2012 11:06:49 AM
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"Income is income"? C'mon George, you're better than the redistributionist philosophy you're espousing. A person pays tax on ordinary income, then invests what remains of that income in a property. It's double taxation, everyone knows it. Assets are not income. Thanks for fanning the class warfare flames. Such a mistaken notion, too, that this is only a tax on the wealthy. |
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Posted by justathought - 2/3/2012 7:37:06 AM
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ILYO and iknowall?? you are both spot on ,George sorry but I have to strongly disagree with you on this one, unless you have walk the walk in this one you are probably not going to understand lets just hope that someday they don't find a way to tax you double on something and remember if the small farms and companies are gone then what will this country be hope I am not around to see. |
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Posted by nebred - 2/3/2012 7:09:07 AM
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George - I find it humerous that you seem to believe that only a person "born into a wealthier family" will receive land from a family member at their death. I grew up in a family that had pasture land that was rented out every year. This land has been in my family for three generations (I will be the fourth if I can afford to keep it) and is the ONLY thing my dad has to pass down to my brother and I. We technically grew up under the poverty line, even though we didn't know at the time because my parents budgeted so well. THIS is the reason that family owned farms and ranches are going under - this crazy idea that only "wealthy families" have land to pass down. They paid taxes when they inherited it from my grandfather (who also paid taxes) and they have paid taxes on every dime that they have spent to maintain the land and have paid taxes on every dime of income that they have made from it. How many times does the same family have to be taxed? |
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Posted by ILYO - 2/2/2012 8:20:00 PM
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Calling it a income tax is propaganda. The event that triggers an inheritance is a death. Transfer of wealth otherwise is a gift and is taxed after a threshold has been met at least on a Federal level. |
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Posted by dragracer - 2/2/2012 8:01:44 PM
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The person dying is not taxed for dying. That's ridiculous. The person getting the inheritance (sometimes straight out money) is getting taxed.
(Calling it "death tax" is proganda. It's an inheritance tax, an estate tax... a tax on an inheritance that someone receives just because a family died or because someone else liked them.)
Couldn't agree with you more about the need for much better government. However, the county is the least wasteful, best operation out of city, schools, state and federal govt entities, in my opinion.
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Posted by George Lauby - 2/2/2012 7:41:52 PM
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George, I have to disagree with you about the income tax and equating it to the death tax. If I own a hardware store and when I die the government gets a tax simply because I die. Then what is left is passed to my children and hopefully if there is enough to pay the tax without selling the business, they continue to run the store. Any income that they make is then taxed as income tax as it should. They also continue to pay property taxes and other taxes as did I before them. This is not anything like an income tax and is simply a tax because someone died. Also, if the store leaves 100000 dollars in cash that money is taxed before it is given to the children and then once the children receive it, the remainder is again counted as income for my children and taxed again. It is a never ending vicious circle. I hate paying taxes at all, but realize that it is a necessary thing. However, paying taxes is much easier when you see that your money is being spent wisely. When you see so much government waste on the local, state and federal level you just need to say enough is enough and make changes. All that aside the death tax is a double tax and is very unfair and makes it very hard for a person to leave their children what they have worked so hard for. |
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Posted by iknowall?? - 2/2/2012 6:50:19 PM
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Why is it that individuals who are disciplined and productive with money are forced to give a portion of it to governments and individuals who aren't? |
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Posted by Walt - 2/2/2012 6:49:19 PM
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SAKO +10! Thanks George you make my point big time. Big difference between income tax and a wealth tax.:) |
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Posted by dragracer - 2/2/2012 3:13:21 PM
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sako, I disagree with you about consolidating counties. it's a mistake to think you will save money. For one thing, small county offices don't spend much money -- they are the lowest spenders, so even if they were gone entirely not much overall would be saved. Also, consolidation tends to put more taxing and buying power in fewer hands, so spending and taxes tend to increase. |
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Posted by George Lauby - 2/2/2012 2:16:00 PM
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Also nebred, the inheritance tax pays (about) 10 percent of the roads costs, not all. All property owners, not just inheritance recipients, pay property taxes that pay about 90% of the roads' costs. |
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Posted by George Lauby - 2/2/2012 1:54:53 PM
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nebred, income is income. If someone gives you a bunch of income why shouldn't you have to pay taxes on it? People who don't get an inheritance have to pay taxes on all their income. Why should a person born into a wealthier family get a bunch of money or assets without paying tax on it? |
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Posted by George Lauby - 2/2/2012 1:51:40 PM
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And it's wrong to tell the richest Americans that they will be punished for sharing the fruits of their labor or good fortune as they see fit, even if you or I might imagine in moments of hubris and envy that we could spend it so much more wisely. |
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Posted by nebred - 2/2/2012 12:54:00 PM
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I don't like the estate tax on moral grounds. It's wrong for the government to tax people twice, once when they earn the money and once when they give it away, if the giving away is done after death, an arbitrary and unpredictable deadline. It's wrong for the government to create a tax that benefits tax lawyers and insurance companies for their creativity in structuring tax havens rather than helping to make the world a better place. |
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Posted by nebred - 2/2/2012 12:52:34 PM
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George ,because taxes have already been paid on the property in the form of land tax and any income made off of that land ,and would continue to be paid the same way,if I buy a hat and pay the tax tor it then give it to you should you pay a tax for receiving it? and what about everyone paying for the roads not just a few who had a loved one die in the last year if I am paying more then I should get more right? |
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Posted by nebred - 2/2/2012 12:49:26 PM
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George I hope you're just playing devil's advocate to stir up the pot and right on Sako. |
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Posted by bigsky - 2/2/2012 12:42:54 PM
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In our country, income is taxed. If a person inherits a bunch of money or property, that is income to them. Why should those who receive (not those who give)not be taxed on that? |
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Posted by George Lauby - 2/2/2012 12:19:50 PM
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There is no longer a need for 93 counties in Nebraska. Our population does not justify it. When the counties originated, we did not have capable transportation or communication like we do now. Now, it is senseless to be spending administrative costs for 93 separate counties. Schools have had to consolidate (probably not enough)it is now time to consolidate and reduce the overhead produced by this huge bureaucracy. |
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Posted by sako - 2/2/2012 9:06:14 AM
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I don't who, what, why or where this tax got started but I can't imagine a more immoral, sinister, corrupt and downright disgusting thing to do to a family than tax them at the death of a loved one or to simply steal the money from one with no family or will. |
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Posted by bigsky - 2/2/2012 8:57:18 AM
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Joe, Why doesn't the county enact a tax of 1 cent on every gallon of fuel loaded at the Kaneb Road (Nustar Pipeline facility). This would spread the tax to anyone/place that the fuel is delivered to (end user) and raise MILLIONS of dollars yearly in additional revenue. Then maybe you could look at having your county road grader operators only grading the 30-35' road width, instead of grading, graveling, and maintaining the 40-50' cuts they are currently doing to save additional money. Many of the gravel roads are easily 3-4 lanes wide now. You could easily save another 100K on maint and gravel costs yearly. AND then cut employee benefits like what has happened to most people who are not city, county, state, or federal employees. This could easily save another 100-200k per year. |
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Posted by concernedcitizen - 2/2/2012 8:55:35 AM
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we tax people to death, and then we tax them because they die. how fitting. |
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Posted by always question - 2/2/2012 8:41:23 AM
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Hewgley states, "Look out Mr. Real Estate Property Taxpayer, all of the (county) funding is going to come from you,” We know Joe!!! We certainly would not expect you to cut spending, and had no doubt that you would come after us ... again. Cut spending!!! I have to!!!! |
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Posted by Redwardlee - 2/2/2012 8:27:32 AM
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I would like to know how much it costs the taxpayer for insurance for county employees. Imagine it is a considerable amount. Lets look into changing that like many other states and counties are doing. Cutting costs is something which needs to be done by all taxing entities. |
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Posted by TrapperJ - 2/2/2012 5:35:56 AM
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The inheritance tax is the worst tax there is and should be done away with. I work very hard for what I have and pay taxes on it as I earn it. I then pass on and leave it to my children and they (Government) come and take a huge chunk again. The value has already been taxed once and the government has no business touching it again just because I happen to die. My parents worked very hard to leave me farm land and when they passed part of the land had to be sold just to pay the inheritance taxes on the land. The only thing that changed is that they died and for that the government thinks it can put its hand in the till AGAIN. This is not a problem of the county not getting the money they need, but rather the county needing to budget like the rest of us and spend their money wisely and when we the people go through hard times the county needs to make the same adjustments to its budget and not take money from people just because it thinks it can. Inheritance or death tax is one of the most unfair taxes around and just needs to go away. That way I can leave my children what I have been able to save and not save twice what I want to leave them just so the government can take half of what I leave. |
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Posted by iknowall?? - 2/1/2012 9:13:50 PM
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this tax is just not right a it is double taxtion, if a farm has been in your family for over 100 years and your parents and grandparents have paid taxes on any profits that have been made for this farm then when it gets passed to the next generation you have to pay more tax? why should a small number of people families have to pay for the roads up keep instead of everyone who uses them ?that is why every year there are less and less small family owned farms and that is just not right! |
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Posted by nebred - 2/1/2012 9:10:58 PM
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